Hehe. You can actually trace panels form that PDF. The NEC LCD2080UX+ 20" for instance has the S-IPS panel with 16 ms and 4:3 ratio. I wonder how that one fares. Price is a little bit lower than Eizo L797 but the NEC has lower contrast ratio. That NEC could perhaps make a good choice for ultra-gamers with too much money.
Ah man.. thats sucky. I wish they could actually make a new model name when they put in new panels in an already exisiting model. I was pretty convinced that VP191b/s was Viewsonics very early 19" 25 ms MVA panel. I think it came in 2003 or something. The prad database confirms that. Then there is two other panel specs out there. Or maybe there is one new type that some information dude at the Viewsonic home page just took (8 + 20) / 2 and ended up with 16 ms somehow.
Moreover, I did see that there are some TV TFT (LG Philips) Super-ISP panels that have like 8 ms gray to gray speeds. TV market seems to rely more on actual quality than specifications like the monitor market. I guess it would be natural to use that technology in monitors too. Just like with the recently reviewed Eizo L778 that uses the overdrive stuff to boost MVA responsetime that has been available in TV TFTs before.
News from Viewsonic in the matter is that they seem to be speccing gray to gray instead of black to black. I guess the technical directors on the companies are starting to kick some marketing ppl asses to fix them annoying "bluff specs" they have been doing with all the crappy TN panels.
Ah. Missing DVI. Didnt observe that. Thanks!
I'm still puzzled that the DVI option is such a cost factor. I heard something about additional toll on DVI monitors since they are possible to connect to other media than computers.. but still.. it seems strange that the toll-difference would be that high.
And the specs says 23 ms MVA weirdly enough. You could almost think that this could be a new MVA type panel and such.. but the monitor is priced insanely low. Almost as low as Acer's models. Anyone know what this is?
Went in and checked out LGs homepage again today. Found out some stuff. The BQ model is actually listed and that as a "fast display" model but with the same stand as the plain B variant.
I also found a quote of interest:
"L1930B SNH without USB, L1930B SUH with USB 1up/2down"
The fact that some places have different specifications must because of the updated panel in the plain B variant. Getting a bit pussled now if the specifications ever changed and even if they did it doesent have to entail that there is a new panel out there. Could just be new ways to measure and fake values. Although the older monitor L1910S seems to match the values of the L1930B in the database but L1910B matches the newer SNH variant. Doh!
Ah well.. seemed to have cleared up a few questionmarks. Some of you might wonder why I care about LG at all. Well.. I think I'd like an IPS panel but all other models have either low availability or some problem with the stand, or stupid speakers included. Too bad that Philips IPS models both have speakers.. for you that dont mind speakers they might be an option. I suspect also that Philips have some kind of financial advantage in Europe because its based in Europe. And even if they manufacture most stuff in east-asia prices might be lower here in relation to an equal product of another brand, that is. They sure seem to be higher in USA which sets the pattern. Viewsonic seems to enjoy the low dollar value and also have good prices here in Europe at the moment.
Done for now.
Done some haphazard investigations of these screens. Seems like there are three versions out there (ther are also in the database now). The only new thing I found out is that the BSNH variant has exactly the same specs as Philips 190B5CG / 190B5CS. The database doesent list what type the Philips panels are but the BSNH is listed as S-IPS. This sounds all reasonable doesent it? LG Philips panels would find its way to LG and Philips monitors. The other thing I noticed is the fact it could be a NEW type of S-IPS panel. The specs are a bit higher in viewing angle and contrast ratio. As a sidenote it seems like the popular LG Philips S-IPS screens from Fujitsu, Lacie and Ilyama has the old specs. NEC monitors doesent match any of them. Of course they all could have been "updated without notice" ad the infopages often claims.. although they usually dont "update" screens, more like "downgrade" them.
I've lately been thinking about commercial reviews of items. How they work.. I mean sometimes you read that "the products was bought off the shelves and tested" but most often nothing is mentioned. And I've seen a couple of reviews that gives L1930B quite a good grade. For instance PCWORLD
PC World does them tests often. They tend to be biased toward american brands but other than that from my experience they are fairly decent tests.
I also saw a swedish magazine where L1930B got better grade (also recommended purchase) than Lacie Photonvision even though they got a fairly similar "calm image" impression from them both. I kind of doubt the reviewer knew that they could have the same kind of panel in them so I guess what he saw would be the S-IPS effect.
These tests could just mean that LG sends the best type of screen to the testers and then sell the junk like the ones with TN panels or the old type of IPS panel .. well.. for all I know the older variant could be better than the new one. However, it all just strenthens Totamec's disaproval of LG in general.
Hi you all. Amazing forum you constitute here. Always makes me very happy when I find a good forum like this. So today I'm happy.
The quest seems to be for the best allaround TFT for the lowest price. I'm looking for a screen that makes text reading easier. I want to look on all parameters which include: image quality, bresel design and stability.
The questions (All about 19"):
1. Are ISP panels in your opinion best for text reading ergonomics? What would be better?
2. What monitors do have ISP panels and what models could be speced to have ISP but will have something else? Looking at:
Sony SDM-S94 (not P)
3. Whats the story with Viewsonics panels? Are they 6+2? What models to check out or avoid? Looking at:
VP912B There is a difference between B and S. Anti glare coating on S. Which makes it TCO03 and B TCO99.
4. Where to go if I want a PVA or MVA?
5. Opinions on sparsely documented screens like Sony's X-black screens and various Philips models. Any of them ISP for instance?
6. Are there any next generation panels around the corner that are worth waiting for (usually isnt). I surely dont want to wait several years for a SED or FED display.
The extremly long:
I've lazily been monitoring the TFT market for a couple of years now. It all started when I got problems with my previous CRT (which I was relatively satisfied with) and had to replace it getting a crappy variant. I then started to look for a new montior and realised that there wasnt any good CRTs anymore. All of them had production problems and almost all had aperture grille or similar techniques that seemed very haphazard when it came to image quality. I especially have problem with the convergence of these types of montiors. I get headaches and my eyes got tired from the focusing problems you get when convergence is slightly off. I considered buying an old shadowmask secondhand Eizo, but older monitors, even Eizo, seems to loose focus after a while.
Thus I started to look for a TFT. First prices were too steep and the specs too crappy. And noone wanted to include DVI. I also didnt like the small pixel size of 17" screens. The 15" all had crappy old displays. Then I started looking at 19".. prices too steep and dead pixel crap.. I continued to follow. Saw Samsung produce some models where the specs looked alright and the dead pixel issue is being take seriously. Also saw the comback of TN displays with fake response time, wtf I thought do they have to market hoax asunder yet another product market? Oh good.. some brads kept making new 8 bit displays but prices still too steep. And now .. 2005. Prices seems to have dropped like bombs. You can get a quite good 19" for the same as I gave for the decent 17" CRT I bought 5 years ago. But are the specs good enough? I dont know. Lately I've been reading up on the technology and forums and everything going into more detail whats going on. Seems like the response time hoax is killing the "popular among the knowers" ISP displays. There are some 'buts' though. Can you get an ISP and is it good enough for text reading? What the hell is this 6+2 bit thing that Viewsonic is playing with and most reviewers seems to like and what models uses it and which doesent?
What do I want? I just want ergonomics. Man.. If could construct my own screen it would probably be a 6 bit greyscale 19" with native resolution of 1024x768. Huge text with perfect stability and it must be possible to make this cheap.
What is ergonomics then? Image has to be stable and sharp I guess. Then its hard to tell.. you have to spend some very long time before you know it works or not. PVA and MVA screens is said to have blacker blacks.. might be a factor in this .. I dont know. I'm pretty sure viewing angle is a factor. Color is less important unless you get funky combinations. For example I saw some reports that some PVA screens get whiteish shadows when displaying black text on grey background. I tend to use nonwhite but light backgrounds. I try to imitate the background of the room and the screen borders but you never come close to that. I'm also not sure if responsiveness is a factor in the ergonomics equation. Logically for me motion blur is a natural occurence.. shouldent be too bad if its not 'strange' behaving in some way.. very fast scrolling and very high response times might be bad though.. hard to tell. Maybe the stand has to be flexible enough to be able to put it on a 30 degree angle from the floor. Do they exist? Are the so called 'pivots' like this? I dont care for spinning the screen 90 deg around its own axis. 5:4 aspect ratio is so close to square anyway.
What do I use it for? It varies. I'm a programmer and I mainly do 3D graphics programming.. however dont take me wrong. Response times doesent matter very much for it.. and if they did I could always dual with a CRT to check things out. Anyway, programming these days is mostly reading documents and manuals anyway so even if I'm not reading code I'm still reading on the screen. And I also use the machine to play some Warcraft and watch some movies and _again read_ great forums like these of course.
Lastly a factor which you might not see here too often: I dont want the monitor to make any sound or noise. Yes.. monitors do tend to buzz and hum.. some more than others. TFT less than CRT. Nevertheless .. its there.
Man. You read all your way down here? You must be crazy.. that or simply enjoying a really good screen that makes it pleasurable to read. Thanks for doing it anyhow.