Posts by deinybai

Hi all.

Some news about my quest for a lcd and belinea.

The belinea 10 19 20 is available on www.materiel.net since today. It is stated that it's the new one, although they don't give the "article 11 19 12" ref. ( if we can swear by it anyway ).
Myne has been shipped today, so i wont be long before i receive it.

Now precisely since the 25/01/05 we can find a news on www.hardware.fr, that says that we shoudn't forget the belinea 10 19 20 which is a good lcd and excellent for the films. So exactly what we all thought, and good news that it could be put forth with this news.

But... the news also states that it's a mva panel! I emailed the author of the news today and he told me that it's a guy responsible for the line of products at belinea france that told him so.

I just read the news yesterday and it rang immediatly a bell since i had seen on the french belinea site that the panel was a pva ( pdf document ). but when i tried to get the page the site was unavailable... i then turned to the uk one, and saw the pva spec for the "article 11 19 12" ref.

Today i try the french site again and it works, and what a surprise it has the spec for the old model! In fact after checking it seems that it's the only one in europe to display the old model specs! And it's even more surprising since i previously saw the new model's spec on this site.

All of this at the same time that http://www.materiel.net has new stocks of the model and at the same time of the news on a very popular french web site.
Very very strange, and not precisely reassuring. Has Belinea, in France, changed it's policy of transparency ? Or is it just an error from the guy from belinea who gave the information ( but then why the change on the french site with the old spec, and the pva panel spec not given any more ? ) ?

What do you think ?

Thanks Weideblitz, it's great to hear.

I 'm making other choices regarding hardware to buy at the same time at the online store. I wont be long before i get the belenea

I won't forget to post a little something regarding my first impressions

I'll keep you all informed. Good night.

Yes Totamec i think i will take your advice
And my quest will be finally over *relief*

I like that you think it would be perfect for me
In fact i had already considered this display since it seems it 's the most sold one here in France. There were raving reviews on it on the forums. And then since the new one has been out, we don't have many new opinions, and i was a little suspicious of the new panel and settings they could have done.
That you could have seen it is a good thing.

I sent ldlc.com two emails, and posted a message in a well know forum for advice.
No answers for the moment, but I found someone in December 13th, that says the image on ldlc.com doesnt correspond to the product he's recieved, says the display he recieved hasn't got round corners like the old one. So i guess they don't sell the old one.

That means i can buy it in another store if i choose to.

Silent one! Nice

I 'll keep you informed. Thanks again.

I suppose the nec or viewsonic are of greater quality in general but not necessarily an improvement for what i want ?
And since the belinea is also of very good quality and luckily in your hands, i will look more closely on this one first.

Right now the first thing that's intriguing me is the fact that the new version ( NG = New Generation in France ) of it has come around November last year. and i find strange that we can still find the old version on www.ldlc.com, especially since it's their most sold 19" tft since some time now. One could think they should be out of stock since long ago... But they still give the specs of the old one... I got to make sure it's really the old one. What do you think, is it possible they still have stocks of the old model ?
I must confess that i would prefer to have exactly the same model as yours, since you think it would be perfect for me. I'm a little paranoid and think maybe the settings on the new one could not be as good ( maybe taking advantage of the fame of the old model ). Have you seen the new model personnaly ?
And does it make some sound or is it complety silent ?

Thanks very much.

I think the most comprehensive online store is this one : www.ldlc.com.
A little less choice but good support : www.materiel.net

As i said the budget is not really a limitation, i just want to get the right one for my purpose, which is to get the lcd which will provide the best image for the comfort and health of my eyes. Meaning it doesn't have necessarily to have superb color rendition ( like some eizo i suppose ).

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sorry for my short answer, I'm a bit in stress.

I'm very pleased you took the little time you had to post a little something. Thank you very much.

This is from the tft-faq :

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But it is used also to change around the brightness of the lamps and this happens as follows: The brightness is changed by a so-called pulse width modulation, i.e. the lamps are switched on and off fast, whereby the relationship from switch-on time to fall time varies. The longer the a time in relation to the time-out is, the more brightly becomes it.

Can't this system of luminosity be a little painfull on the eyes ?

Now that i think of it, they probably wanted to go for the mva panel 20ms and 16.7mio, but couldn't quite make it, knew they'd have to work on it a little more, so decided to produce this "half" result in the mean time. What do you think ?
In any way we have a mva panel with 16.2 colors... ( yes, i got to get used to the idea )

So i have beeing looking for a tft for some time now, and yet can't really make up my mind on a definite model. Too many questions still remain. I must admit your site has been a real plus in my researchs ( how happy i was to find your english section )

I come from a CRT 17" Viewsonic PF775 Professional Series, quite a good monitor. I don't know how it compares to the best diamondtron though. I used it at 85Hz, i couldnt get a better refresh rate under linux. I never used a TFT.

Lately i found i was more and more easyly the prey of eye strains, in front of my crt for long hours, so i decided i had to get a lcd.

The absolute priority for me is to get the lcd which will be the best for my eyes, all else is second to that. In most of the tests i read on the net the stress was put on the video or game side of things but the quality of written texte was not really adressed.

Mostly i will do editing, reading, internet, and watching videos. I don't care for the games.

I wont pay the price of the latest eizo, but i'm ready to pay what is necessary to get a very good display quality. If there's a medium priced model quite sufficient for my purpose, then no need to pay too much either. In fact that's my main problem i dont know at which point the quality of the lcd would be such that paying more wouldn't be any more profitable to the eye comfort.

It's probable that most of the lcds today would already be a real improvement over a crt, but since it's the moment of choice, i want to push my advantage even farther.

I believe a DVI connection is a must have in my case.

Ergonomics are not very important. If i can find the right panel quality without ergonomics, it will be sufficient. The OSD must not be dependant of the OS though, as is the case with the Samsung 193P, so that i can use it under linux.

At first i was going for a 17" lcd, and then i realised that with a 19" the caracters would be easier to read, since they are about 12% bigger than on a 17".
I read someone saying that the pixelisation was annoying, and of course the definition, and proportions are not so good. But i'm not a graphist, as long as it's best for the eye comfort, i dont care ( my new credo ).
Also there's not too much 17" with VA/IPS panels, which i believe are best for what i need.
And maybe due to price, the fabrication could be "cheap", resulting in bad homogeneity of luminosity...

So yes, i pretty much opted out the TN panels :
-small viewing angles
-dithering, not great for videos.

There's only one good thing that i can think of with the TN panels : speed. The ghosting found on the VA/IPS panels must have an impact on the eye comfort, especialy when dooing a lot of scrolling. I just don't know how hard this ghosting can be on the eyes.

I guess this ghosting could have a impact in the choice between an mVA/pVA or IPS panel, as it seems the IPS panels are faster ?

It would be a real plus if i could set the luminosity level to an acceptable level for the eyes, without losing too much color quality. I hear lcds are really too bright in general.

And yes, you guessed it, no screendoor or crystal effect

Now i must sound like a real funk*** ass**le of a perfectionist
But i think when you can spend 14 hours in front of a monitor, that that's an accumulation of small things that makes a difference.

Is there any more things i could take into account to improve even more the comfort ?

So what do you think ? Any lcd up to it ?

Thanks in advance for the help.

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Original von Totamec
Dude great work! I lift my head up!

Emacs and copy/paste frenzy

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This is really like LG. They say we used an IPS panel but than you can find a VA panel in the device.

Umm, a company i will have the most diffulculties to trust then...

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The whole responsetime shit (sorry for the word) is pure marketing! Never (!!) trust what the companies say. The real responsetime will be around 30-40ms so don't care about a 20 or 23, they are both wrong

You are absolutely right! In fact there's very little data we can trust, they all use methods that suit them best for the results. contrast, luminosity, response time, nothing we can trust blindly.
All the same i just think that the average customer ( which i was not long ago, before my quest for a tft ) should take notice of this, thus my post. Because those tft-makers know perfectly well that those numbers still mean a lot to the customer. As do the online stores. the tft-makers cheating with numbers, and online-stores well maybe being cheated, but maybe not very willingfull to check more deeply the data given to them either...
Also, i find very remarkable that i couldn't find one store mentionning the number of colors... Couldn't it be to prevent the customer from going doubtfull reading mva and 16.2mio ?
Indeed xyra ( thank you for your post ), they most probably had to change it. And now it's very convenient that all those articles on the net are still mentioning the 20ms spec, as do almost all the online stores ( in France at least ) ...

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Next point: the 485 has 16,2 mio colours, it's wrong in our database. I told our admin to correct it.

Yes it makes so much sense to state 16,7 for a mva panel, who can blame the error

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The panel is not a new technologie. It's just a workaround of the old one. What I mentioned is a production fault which is a result of bad electronics.

So this model, which is a workaround of the old one, is concerned by this production fault ? And their spec of 16.2 is a way to admit it ? It would mean that it's not a new technology but still a new type of panel ?
Don't they have tried to correct this fault ? I'm sorry to ask so much, but it's very interesting
For exemple I read, if i am not mistaken, that you think the dell 1905fp has this type of faulty panel, which rang a bell since i knew that some thought the iiyama E485S and the dell had the same panel, and thus it would make even more sense. Still does it mean that all dell 1905fp, old and new will always have this faulty panel ? I hope my questions are not too silly.

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I had french in school and forgotten all of it - only some words for getting a chick up.

umm nice I can see it : "Vous êtes si belle !"

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My last sentences today: it is a good device, but a shooter player will have more fun with an IPS device. For a graphicer and a mmorg-player, it is a good alternative.

Hope I could help you!

Yes, i appreciate.
Thank you very much for your time and dedication to help.

Hello all, i am new on this forum, but appreciate it very much and have found the advices given here very interesting. I hope you'll forgive me for my english.

I don't know if it's the proper section to post this, i supose it could also be posted in the TFT News section as well, but since this post is directed at Totamec i thought i would post it here.

I live in France, and i was quite interested in the Iiyama ProLite E485S-S, a 19" lcd monitor. I wanted to share with you the results of my researchs.

The Iiyama ProLite E485S-S is given to feature a good price-performance ratio for internet/office applications in "the What-To-Buy Guide".

This model has very strange "flotting" specifications that dont really give much confidence :

Note: http://www.clust.com is the only french online store that i found to give the 23ms specification.

20ms response time specification found in :
small résumé on www.iiyama.fr ( France )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, pdf document ( France )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, pdf document ( United Kingdom )
detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, pdf document ( Germany )
technical information from ldlc.com ( french online store )
technical information from www.1000ordi.fr ( french online store )
technical information from www.pixmania.com ( french online store )

23ms response time specification found in :
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, html page ( France )
fiche technique sur www.prad.de ( Germany )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, html page ( United Kingdom )
detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, html page ( Germany )
technical information from clust.com ( french online store )

Note : i didn't find one french online store which was brave enough to give the number of colors of this monitor.

Number of colors 16,2 Mio specification found in :
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, html page ( France )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, pdf document ( France )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, pdf document ( United Kingdom )
detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, html page ( United Kingdom )
detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, html page ( Germany )
detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, pdf document ( Germany )

Number of colors 16,70 Mio specification found in :
technical information from www.prad.de ( yes i find your site very helpfull :) ) ( Germany )

also :
Games/Vidéo appreciation from iiyama sites :
8/8 from www.iiyama.co.uk
6/8 from www.iiyama.fr
8/8 from www3.iiyama.de
One can remark that it's exactly the same trend with the E481S model, they must be thinking that french players are more picky about their lcd to play games

It is remarkable that on the french iiyama site they even go to the extent as to give the 20ms and 23ms specification on exactly the same page. Otherwise all iiyama sites give both specifications, the 20ms one being found in the pdf information sheet.

So it's quite interesting to see that all iiyama sites give this model as a mva panel with 16.2Mio colors, which obviously is very unusual.

Now we come to the main reason that i posted this here as i found a very interesting quote from your site and from you, Totamec :

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The first 12/ 16ms VA panels are comming on the market. But they jump between 16bit and 8bit colours as soon as the have to hurry up during games/ videos.

So can it be possible that the panel on this lcd is a kind of new technology, with two levels of color rendition ? Or is this all a big mistake from iiyama ?

All of this happening with a lcd market no quite trustable at the moment, with an enduring unwillingness from the lcd makers to give any precise information on the panel incorporated in each of their models, and quite enjoying to take customers for idiots it seems...

As i know you recommend the Iiyama ProLite E481S from time to time, by which i am very interested ( but a little less confident of iiyama at the moment of course ), i was wondering what you could think of all of this.

Cheers.

ps: btw, i am only a concerned customer who feels we should be allowed to be more informed of what we buy, as i think you are too obviously, and have posted this message allready today on a french forum. I am in no way a member of some conspiracy group, here to knock down iiyama. I learned german in school, but shamefully have all forgotten about it, but this very nice site could be an enjoyable means to refresh my german