iiyama E485S-S -- Wrong specs OR new type of mva panel ?

    Hello all, i am new on this forum, but appreciate it very much and have found the advices given here very interesting. I hope you'll forgive me for my english.


    I don't know if it's the proper section to post this, i supose it could also be posted in the TFT News section as well, but since this post is directed at Totamec i thought i would post it here.


    I live in France, and i was quite interested in the Iiyama ProLite E485S-S, a 19" lcd monitor. I wanted to share with you the results of my researchs.


    The Iiyama ProLite E485S-S is given to feature a good price-performance ratio for internet/office applications in "the What-To-Buy Guide".


    This model has very strange "flotting" specifications that dont really give much confidence :


    Note: http://www.clust.com is the only french online store that i found to give the 23ms specification.


    20ms response time specification found in :
    small résumé on www.iiyama.fr ( France )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, pdf document ( France )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, pdf document ( United Kingdom )
    detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, pdf document ( Germany )
    technical information from ldlc.com ( french online store )
    technical information from www.1000ordi.fr ( french online store )
    technical information from www.pixmania.com ( french online store )


    23ms response time specification found in :
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, html page ( France )
    fiche technique sur www.prad.de ( Germany )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, html page ( United Kingdom )
    detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, html page ( Germany )
    technical information from clust.com ( french online store )


    Note : i didn't find one french online store which was brave enough to give the number of colors of this monitor.


    Number of colors 16,2 Mio specification found in :
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, html page ( France )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.fr, pdf document ( France )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, pdf document ( United Kingdom )
    detailed technical information on www.iiyama.co.uk, html page ( United Kingdom )
    detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, html page ( Germany )
    detailed technical information on www3.iiyama.de, pdf document ( Germany )


    Number of colors 16,70 Mio specification found in :
    technical information from www.prad.de ( yes i find your site very helpfull :) ) ( Germany )


    also :
    Games/Vidéo appreciation from iiyama sites :
    8/8 from www.iiyama.co.uk
    6/8 from www.iiyama.fr
    8/8 from www3.iiyama.de
    One can remark that it's exactly the same trend with the E481S model, they must be thinking that french players are more picky about their lcd to play games :)


    It is remarkable that on the french iiyama site they even go to the extent as to give the 20ms and 23ms specification on exactly the same page. Otherwise all iiyama sites give both specifications, the 20ms one being found in the pdf information sheet.


    So it's quite interesting to see that all iiyama sites give this model as a mva panel with 16.2Mio colors, which obviously is very unusual.


    Now we come to the main reason that i posted this here as i found a very interesting quote from your site and from you, Totamec :


    Quote

    The first 12/ 16ms VA panels are comming on the market. But they jump between 16bit and 8bit colours as soon as the have to hurry up during games/ videos.


    So can it be possible that the panel on this lcd is a kind of new technology, with two levels of color rendition ? Or is this all a big mistake from iiyama ?


    All of this happening with a lcd market no quite trustable at the moment, with an enduring unwillingness from the lcd makers to give any precise information on the panel incorporated in each of their models, and quite enjoying to take customers for idiots it seems...


    As i know you recommend the Iiyama ProLite E481S from time to time, by which i am very interested ( but a little less confident of iiyama at the moment of course ), i was wondering what you could think of all of this.


    Cheers.


    ps: btw, i am only a concerned customer who feels we should be allowed to be more informed of what we buy, as i think you are too obviously, and have posted this message allready today on a french forum. I am in no way a member of some conspiracy group, here to knock down iiyama. I learned german in school, but shamefully have all forgotten about it, but this very nice site could be an enjoyable means to refresh my german :)

    Lol.


    Dude great work! I lift my head up!


    This is really like LG. They say we used an IPS panel but than you can find a VA panel in the device.


    The whole responsetime shit (sorry for the word) is pure marketing! Never (!!) trust what the companies say. The real responsetime will be around 30-40ms so don´t care about a 20 or 23, they are both wrong ;)


    Next point: the 485 has 16,2 mio colours, it´s wrong in our database. I told our admin to correct it.


    The panel is not a new technologie. It´s just a workaround of the old one. What I mentioned is a production fault which is a result of bad electronics.


    I had french in school and forgotten all of it - only some words for getting a chick up. ;)


    My last sentences today: it is a good device, but a shooter player will have more fun with an IPS device. For a graphicer and a mmorg-player, it is a good alternative.


    Hope I could help you!

    I was (and still am) interessted in that display. so i had a look at this product since its on the market.


    in the first 1-2 weeks the responsetime was 20 ms on every page i looked. then they changed it on some to 23ms


    this happend to some other MVA displays too.
    First they were 20ms but then some ppl who tested it found out that they are still 25ms and so the vendors had to change it.


    i think 23ms could be the real, as other 19" MVA panels got measuered responsetime of 22ms (FSC P19-1)


    and i dont think they changed the PDFs. so there are still 20ms, even 23 is correct

    Quote

    Original von Totamec
    Dude great work! I lift my head up!


    Emacs and copy/paste frenzy :)


    Quote

    This is really like LG. They say we used an IPS panel but than you can find a VA panel in the device.


    Umm, a company i will have the most diffulculties to trust then...


    Quote

    The whole responsetime shit (sorry for the word) is pure marketing! Never (!!) trust what the companies say. The real responsetime will be around 30-40ms so don't care about a 20 or 23, they are both wrong ;)


    You are absolutely right! In fact there's very little data we can trust, they all use methods that suit them best for the results. contrast, luminosity, response time, nothing we can trust blindly.
    All the same i just think that the average customer ( which i was not long ago, before my quest for a tft ) should take notice of this, thus my post. Because those tft-makers know perfectly well that those numbers still mean a lot to the customer. As do the online stores. the tft-makers cheating with numbers, and online-stores well maybe being cheated, but maybe not very willingfull to check more deeply the data given to them either...
    Also, i find very remarkable that i couldn't find one store mentionning the number of colors... Couldn't it be to prevent the customer from going doubtfull reading mva and 16.2mio ?
    Indeed xyra ( thank you for your post ), they most probably had to change it. And now it's very convenient that all those articles on the net are still mentioning the 20ms spec, as do almost all the online stores ( in France at least ) ...


    Quote

    Next point: the 485 has 16,2 mio colours, it's wrong in our database. I told our admin to correct it.


    Yes it makes so much sense to state 16,7 for a mva panel, who can blame the error :)


    Quote

    The panel is not a new technologie. It's just a workaround of the old one. What I mentioned is a production fault which is a result of bad electronics.


    So this model, which is a workaround of the old one, is concerned by this production fault ? And their spec of 16.2 is a way to admit it ? It would mean that it's not a new technology but still a new type of panel ?
    Don't they have tried to correct this fault ? I'm sorry to ask so much, but it's very interesting :)
    For exemple I read, if i am not mistaken, that you think the dell 1905fp has this type of faulty panel, which rang a bell since i knew that some thought the iiyama E485S and the dell had the same panel, and thus it would make even more sense. Still does it mean that all dell 1905fp, old and new will always have this faulty panel ? I hope my questions are not too silly.


    Quote

    I had french in school and forgotten all of it - only some words for getting a chick up. ;)


    umm nice :) I can see it : "Vous êtes si belle !"


    Quote

    My last sentences today: it is a good device, but a shooter player will have more fun with an IPS device. For a graphicer and a mmorg-player, it is a good alternative.


    Hope I could help you!


    Yes, i appreciate.
    Thank you very much for your time and dedication to help.

    Now that i think of it, they probably wanted to go for the mva panel 20ms and 16.7mio, but couldn't quite make it, knew they'd have to work on it a little more, so decided to produce this "half" result in the mean time. What do you think ?
    In any way we have a mva panel with 16.2 colors... ( yes, i got to get used to the idea ;) )

    This is how the companies work. Better bring a bit faster display to the market than a well working one. It is simple bad marketstrategy.


    HP told me, that this 8bit / 16bit colour switch is a problem of the electronics and it should be fixed in the nearly future. This is what I got today. Now we have to devide between the companies who uses the modul - panel + electronics - and companies who orders only the panel. I´m working on that.


    Sorry I´m a bit bussy today, but wanted to answer!