Choosing the right S-IPS (or possibly PVA)

    Greetings you friendly folk,


    I'm impressed by the level of knowledge and helpful attitude shown on this forum. So I joined too and I'm straight away requesting an advice on 19" LCD monitor.


    Background check:
    I'm a graphic artist (in developement) looking for my first LCD. I mainly work with 2D/3D graphics and do occasional works for print. Other than that I watch movies, browse the web and sometimes play games (FPS too).


    Most important factors for me are true colors with wide viewing angles. It would be nice if screen would be fast enough for DVDs and some games too. I have concluded my requirements mean S-IPS or similar. I found an article that pretty much decided that:


    It is an incredible read. Go, see for yourself. But you probably have read it already.


    I live in Finland. You may ask what stores are available. Check this free service that collects prices for comparison:

    It is in Finnish, sorry, but choose link called 18"-19" and it lists products. Choose a product and it lists stores selling it and their prices. All prices include VAT (tax).



    In S-IPS I'm leaning towards LG 1930B (500:1, 16.8M, 25ms, 475EUR)
    - Liyama Pro Lite E481S is a bit too much (600+ some euros) ..or would it be worth it?
    - FSC P19-1A is not available (sold out maybe)
    - NEC 1960nxi is not available
    - Eizo goes way out of my price range
    Do you know and recommend any others with same/similar panel?


    Are Hansol / AOC any good, what model? Browse at:

    (many languages to choose - a Denmark based service)


    Or could you recommend any PVA panel that would suit my use? My price ceiling is about 600 euros.


    I would greatly appreciate your advice. Thanks!

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Sleepy ()

    Also, while trying the find the perfect panel for my use, I came acrossViewsonic VP912B. It seemed too good to be true: very flexible, bright, fast and said to reproduce great vibrant colors. Gamers love it. And now it is out in Europe with an "anti-glare 3H" coating that should remove the problem people had with previous coating ("glare 2H" was highly reflective).
    New model is labeled VP912S.


    But it seems to be a 6 bit panel. Viewsonic doesn't tell on their webpages, but when asked tech support has given following answers (for -B and -S models):
    - 8 bit (for 912B, got it from Anandtech forums)
    - 6+2 bit (for 912B, got it from Hardforum)
    - 16.7 million colours (for 912S, called Viewsonic Finland)
    - PVA or possibly Fujitsu-Siemens panel
    (for 912S, again the phone call.. tech support in Finland was thown of by my question, incompetence dammit)


    I think 912S is still same panel as 912B but with different coating. And many on think 912B has the same panel as Sony SDM-HS94P. The panels seem very very similar. And according to Sony panel in their SDM-HS94P is "a-Si TFT, TN". That's what I believe 912S to be as well: a strange new TN.


    Why I tell you about this? I thought it would be a perfect panel if it only was a true 8 bit, maybe a new blazingly fast PVA. I went as far as to ask Viewsonic Tech Support myself, but they were clueless in Finland. Emailed Viewsonic UK service.. but they haven't answered yet.


    If you have any better info on color depth of VP912S (or "B"), please tell. Thanks.
    But it still think my best bet is S-IPS.



    If you are interested in reading more on VP912, here's some links I dug up:


    VP912S info at


    VP912B review at


    VP912B review at


    VP912B review at


    VP912B review at CNET


    HARDFORUM
    910T and VP912B comparison


    praise & backlight leaking


    on SOny using the same panel

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Sleepy ()

    Zitat

    Original von Xbitlabs
    They also have some problems with color reproduction – they are worse than IPS matrices in this respect, so MVA and PVA matrices both are unsuitable for working with color


    This cant be true !?

    WElcome on board.


    You are right: you need an IPS Panel. You need the perfect match of response and colours.


    LG products are often not that expensive with a cause. The quality is not that well, sometimes they use different panels - like VA in an IPS device - and more. Please, you seem to be a critical user, don´t buy a pure LG device.
    And now we are getting in trouble. The only device with IPS panel I would recommend is the iiyama which is too expensive for you.


    The first 12/ 16ms VA panels are comming on the market. But they jump between 16bit and 8bit colours as soon as the have to hurry up during games/ videos.


    If the iiyama is really far out of your budget, you maybe should wait a while to see what the workarounds of the 12/16ms VA panels will bring us.


    Thank you for the links :))

    Thank you Totamec! :)
    I have seen you give many good advices and I will take your word for it and not go for a LG. Ok, lets see what other options I still have.


    Actually Fujitsu-Siemens Scenicview P19-1A is still available but 694 EUR.
    Also Eizo FlexScan L767 / L767K can be had for 641 EUR.


    Iiyama is not terribly over my price range. I can (so far) find only one vendor () for Pro-Lite E481 and this vendor is often not the cheapest.
    Iiyama Pro Lite E481S-B 609 EUR
    Iiyama Pro Lite E481S-S 615 EUR
    Iiyama Pro Lite E481S-W 609 EUR


    But I think I may be able to get those listed above from a local shop, they do sell some Iiyama, why not Pro Lite model. Maybe I will get them a bit cheaper. What model do you recommend?


    Also Nec 1960NX is available but too much: 684 EUR
    Nec MS1970NX is 575 EUR.


    And you don't recommend Hansol or AOC? Oh wait, Hansol seems to come only with D-SUB, no DVI, so forget Hansol.


    So to make it short:
    Perhaps my options are Iiyama or Nec. Which one would you recommend?

    Stay with the iiyama. They 481 is really proofed in your working areas.


    The shortcuts behind the Ident means the colour: B = black, S = silver, W = white. Black is not that well for your eyes, you might get sleepy by working on it - cause of the hard break between screen, frame and room. The silver one looks very good.


    You have to hurry, the 481 is end of line, same as the P19-1A. The 1960nx is equal to the 481/ P19-1a (some small differents, which doesn´t have to be mentioned). So why spend more money if you like the outward of the 481?


    If you want an Eizo, take the 797 8) costs only 1000bugs... ;)


    The hansol has only D-Sub and the VA panel, I don´t think you will be happy with it. You need a very good allrounder.


    No problem ;)

    Cause I don´t know the device. I just know what an ing. from NEC told me and after that, I decided that I have to see it before I recommend it.

    Thank you again Totamec.


    For the last hour or so I've been browsing through all vendors selling Iiyama E481-S. What I've found is like this:


    THE GOOD
    Closest shop selling E481-S is only a walk distance away from where I live (no shipping costs) and they also seem to be the cheapest: 605 EUR. Also, if I'm lucky, they might let me see it in action first.. so I can tell whether I like it or not and if there are dead pixels or not. I will ask on this when they open (monday).


    One other local shop sells Iiyama and might offer a slightly better price, maybe just under 600.


    THE BAD
    I have not found any prices below 600 euros. Other E481 cons are:
    - DVI cabel is not included (means 20+ some euros).
    - E481 doesn't height adjust, doesn't swivel and tilts only 20 degrees. So essentially you are paying premium for the panel only. But maybe it is worth it (?).


    THe UGLY ;)
    E481 is not, in my opinion, the prettiest of panels.



    And that new Nec Multisync 1970NX (575 EUR)...
    - has tilt, swivel and height adjustment
    - is pretty ;)
    - doesn't include DVI cable
    - has 500:1 contrast (supposedly) compared to 400:1 of E481
    - that close-by store might sell this too (they sell some other Nec ), I should at least ask


    Totamec, could you tell or hint on what "an ing. from NEC" told you..
    is there something wrong with 1970NX ? I will go for E481-S if 1970NX is a bad apple. If not, I should seriously consider it, no?


    Ok, time for sauna :D Thanks and bye for a while.


    EDIT: Read another thread with some comments on 1970NX. I don't think brightness would be a problem for me. I too am waiting for this monitor to be reviewed.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Sleepy ()

    The "glittering" effect is a bit stronger as it is by the Iiyama. I hate this effect, I go crazy as soon as I got it in front of my big nose. But this is only a small bird sang to me. As long as I didn´t see it, I cannot recommend it to you: That is my problem. One more thing, is the really strong lumination of the 1970nx (as stronger the lumination, as faster is the display). I prefer not that luminated displays, I like a normal range like the one from the 481.


    I know that you will be happy with the 481, you can get cheaper DVI cables - they are not bad you know.


    The reviews in the german section are really good of the 1970nx.


    Both are good devices, I think with some advantages for the 481.

    Alright, thanks again Totamec :)


    That glittering effect could be a problem - can't say because I have never seen monitors of this type or the effect. I hope they let me look at the monitor in action before I buy it. Actually I hope I get to see both monitors before choosing.


    Yes, I checked and there certainly is many reviews available in german. Too bad my skills in it are.. a bit rusty. We did have german in school and in gymnasium, but that was so many years ago.. And I didn't take any german in university, just some french. Now I'm good at only two languages and from bad to very bad in 3 ;)


    Anyway I'll go see and try read some reviews. And on monday to come I'll call to some shops and ask about the price and possibility to view those monitors before buying. Still not sure if I'll go for Nec 1970NX or Iiyama E481-S.


    I will post here when I choose.. and of course tell later how I feel about the monitor. Thanks for all info so far. Keep up the good work =) I'm sure I'm not the only who has found this forum helpful.

    Thank you! I´m blushing.


    If you have any further questions, ask me.


    I like your webpage ;) It´s pretty cool.

    Zitat

    Originally posted by Totamec
    I like your webpage ;) It´s pretty cool.


    Well now you're making me blush :D
    Thanks, I'm happy to read that. I myself am very critical about every graphical bit I make (as I should be) and I know I have a very long way to go yet.. but that's part of the fun: the challenge. By the way what do you do?


    I read some reviews in german for both E481 and 1970NX. Some things are very clear and I think I get the main idea, but can't be sure because there are mysterious words that escape me. So I only get a vague idea... anyway reviews seem good for both monitors.


    You mentioned 481 has some advantages to 1970NX. Ok, glittering effect might be less problematic with E481 and 1970NX may be too bright. Could you name some other advantages in short - your view.


    What makes me worry about both monitors is "backlight bleeding". Backlight leaking, light visibly coming out from the edges and making the screen less homogenous and less black. Also I worry about the level of black color - I wonder if it would mean trouble in graphic work. But still both monitors are probably best (if not counting Eizo) I can find for my use.


    Alright, got to get some sleep now. Sleepy as ever ;)

    So just ask what you didn´t understand. I will help you out with the meaning.


    1. New quality lines by NEC which are not that high as they were before
    2. New european service partner in this year
    3. the both effects I already told you - which are really to be mentioned


    I like the NEC products, but the 1970nx is the first TFT I´m not sure about. I think it´s not that high class device as the old line.


    Those homogenous problems can happen with every device. There are some TFTs which have the screws on the outside. You can loose them a bit and the problem goes away. But be careful, as soon as you turn them to far, the garantie goes away!


    To my person. I´m working at the universaty and hope to get a doctorate place end of the year (but it will not happen). Before that, I was a consult so I get my connections to the TFT sector ;)

    Maybe it is better I don't start asking for translations for this and that. There's a lot in those german reviews I don't understand and doing it this way would be more work then translating one review.


    I think I have enough info now - especially with the points you just mentioned. Iiyama should be my choice. Tomorrow or some time soon I hope I can check E481-S with my own eyes. And if they have 1970NX to show me, I can compare. Most likely I will take the E481.


    I'm sure better panel is the most important thing - therefore E481 is the king. Better ergonomics would have been nice. But the CRT I have now is no ergonomic wonder either.. I bet getting a LCD will be a step forward anyway.


    About the homogenous problems.. I don't think I will be adjusting it with anything more then the buttons provided. Don't want to loose the garantie.


    I truly hope you will get your chance for doctorate and soon. You seem like a person doctorate would suit well. A learned man 8) All the best of luck with it.


    Ah, so by consulting you got your connections - that makes sense. Good for you and of course for everybody on this forum.

    Thank you man! Really kindly you are.


    Would you like to read translations of german reviews in our section? The main page goes online in english by the next days and now we are thinking about more user reviews. What is your opinion?

    More reviews (translations) in english? Ha, that would be great :D
    More reviews help to make better decisions. I'm looking forward to these additions. Just don't sweat for them ;) We english speakers have patience - and really should learn some more german.

    Heya Totamec


    So far I've found out that E481 is no longer available from one import company. Currently waiting info from another.. hoping someone still has it in some storage corner somewhere. But it may be that I will not get it at the price (around 600) I have hoped. Some vendors selling it at 700 EUR and more may still have it, but at that price I say let them keep it.


    You mentioned Nec products have come down in quality since previous line products. So perhaps 1960NXi would be a good choice? I have read two positive reviews for it (one here, one at Macworld.com). For some reason those that sell it set a higher price for it (higher than 1970NX). But if I can find it at a good price, should I jump for it?


    Also in 1960NXi review here on this english forum Mio Mao mentions that LaCie Photon19vision has the same panel. I could get Lacie at a reasonable price. As good a choice as 1960NXi ?


    Sorry this endless asking of advice. Write when you feel like it.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Sleepy ()

    Don´t care, I´m here for helping you out.


    Maybe you should really try the NEC 1970nxi. The NEC 1960nxi has the same panel as the Iiyama, but I would not pay more then 650E for it. My personal opinion. If you can get it for a price around that, get it!


    Lacie might be a good alternative. It has the same panel as the Iiyama, right. In germany, Lacies are quit expensive. What is the price?