Beiträge von nickynick

You'll have a hard time finding a 17" TFT with an IPS panel, because afaik IPS panels are no longer manufactured in 17" size. LG still specs its 17" L1720P as an S-IPS but that is undoubtedly incorrect (LG is notorious for this kind of "mistakes" in its specs). If you're in the US, you can still buy the 17" NEC 1700NX from the NEC outlet store, this one has an IPS panel but be aware though that it's contrast and response time are not up to current standards.

I see two options:

- Go for a 19" S-IPS monitor, e.g. the Iiyama E481S is pretty cheap, around 380 euro currently.
- Go for a 17" MVA/PVA monitor, e.g. the Eizo L568, the Samsung 173P (or its successor), the Iiyama H430

There are certainly other factors involved, e.g. on a 19" 1280x1024 panel the pixels are larger than on a 20" 1600x1200 panel. These dimensional factors may influence the interference pattern. IPS panels from NEC-LCD are called Super Fine TFT (SFT) instead of just "IPS", so maybe they have a slightly different approach which results in a more homogenous image.

Yomat: glad to have you back =) You are right about the violet hue being typical for IPS panels, however it only gets annoying at large viewing angles and especially at diagonal viewing angles. When you are just wobbling on your chair, the minimal color shift or violet hue on an IPS will not disturb, but on a TN or VA it does (at least IMO).

As to the crystal effect: I'm not 100% sure it is due to the gaps but I strongly suspect it. Rereading my previous post, I notice I wrote a mistake: in IPS panels there is no electrode on the front glass plate (as I wrote there), but on the contrary: all electrodes of a subpixel have to be on the back glass plate. As a consequence, a larger area of the back glass plate is covered and not transparent. The black mask in the color filter (which determines the color of each subpixel; the black mask is a black border around the subpixel) must cover the electrode areas. As a consequence, a subpixel is no longer rectangular, rather it's like a rectangle of which a smaller rectangle has been removed in one of the corners (hard to explain, I need a drawing ). I think this irregularity causes the strange interference pattern when looking at the display. Or is it stray light that goes past the black mask because they make it just a little bit too tight to get as much light through a pixel as possible? I'm not sure... Since many people don't see the effect I'm more inclined to attribute the effect to some interference pattern...

Yes, keep us informed on how your monitor is doing. Don't worry too much about the crystal effect, the majority of the people have no problem with, so chances are you will be very happy with your new monitor

On paper the viewing angles for IPS or VA are the same (170 or 176 or 178). Basically, when you look at the same angle at both an IPS and VA, the IPS will have less color shift. As for the crystal effect, it is really not that bad, otherwise no one would buy IPS anymore. Most people don't even notice it or will only notice that "something" is different when they see a VA next to an IPS. It depends a bit on how sensitive your eyes are for this effect. Personally I find the ghosting that appears on VA panels while scrolling much more disturbing. And the color shift on TN panels is even much more disturbing. As you noted the top part of a TN looks darker than the bottom even if you sit straight in front of the monitor. This is because you view the top and the bottom at a slightly different angle and this already introduces color shift. Still, many people get used to this...

Rista, this is indeed the color shift you are noticing. All TFT technologies exhibit some degree of color shift with increasing viewing angle. TN panels are the weakest performers in this respect, VA has less color shift and IPS has the list color shift. This is the reason why all hardware calibratable TFTs for color critical graphical work have IPS panels. Mind you, the IPS panels still have some color shift but it only becomes visible at wider angles than it is the case on VA panels.

The advantage of VA panels over IPS panels is that large areas of the same color look more homogenous on a VA panel. The reason for this is related to the technology being used. Each subpixel in an IPS panel requires an electrode on the front glass plate. This electrode blocks a small part of the light. As a result, the black gaps between the pixels and subpixels are a bit larger in IPS panels than in VA panels. All these small gaps may cause an inteference or moire pattern, I believe this is what some people observe as a crystal effect. Some eyes are more sensitive to it than others; the closer you sit to the screen, the higher the chance you will notice it.

So its a bit like choosing between cholera and the plague

As a final note, if you want to go the IPS route, the Eizo L797 is for sure the best choice if you can afford it. This monitor uses an IPS panel from NEC LCD which is the most advanced IPS panel on the market. It has the least crystal effect (I guess they succeeded in reducing the gaps between pixels). All other 19" TFTs with an IPS panel (Lacie PhotonIIVision, IiyamaE481, NEC 1970NX-1980SXi) use the panel made by LG.Philips which is in fact very good but just not as good as the panel in the L797.

"Premium MVA" is a term that is typically used by AU Optronics. Their M190EN03 V0 panel has indeed an 8ms response time for grey to grey. The remaining specs are not exactly the same (800:1 instead of 1000:1) but are close enough to suspect that this is the panel in the Iiyama.

Link to AU Optronics specs

Don't trust behardware.com too much, in their latest test of 20" TFTs they also say the NEC2060 is a S-IPS while in fact it's a MVA...

You are correct that some manufacturers "boost" the viewing angles by specifying them at CR 5:1 instead of 10:1. But even with this trick TNs cannot reach 170 degrees viewing angles

No it must be a MVA panel, the viewing angles are spec'ed at 170 degrees, no TN reaches these. It's most likely using the same overdrive technology as in the Eizo L778. This technology was developped by Mitsubishi.

By deltas I mean the delta (difference) between the actual color and the target color during calibration. The smaller the difference, the better of course.

The Spectraview 1980 has no suffix. In fact, it is based on the 1980SXI but (probably) with different firmware inside which allows the 10-bit lookup table in the monitor to be written via software. There is a test about this monitor on TrustedReviews.com

It's not IPS is worlds apart from PVA/MVA regarding color accuracy. Unless you are a professionally working in the prepress / photography / graphics business, I think you would be fine with either a PVA/MVA or an IPS panel. PVA/MVA is really not that far behind and is actually better for blacks. But it has ghosting.

The best thing is to try and look at those different types of monitors yourself in a shop or so. It's the only way to find out what will suit your purpose best.

Personally I believe that IPS panels are better for photo work than MVA/PVA panels. Due to the way the light is transmitted through the liquid crystals in an IPS, they have the highest color accuracy and the color/gamma shift in function of increasing viewing angle is less steep than is the case with MVA/PVA panels. The disadvantage of IPS is a less good black level than MVA/PVA. This doesn't mean that their contrast would be "bad" or "not good enough", it is typically 450-500:1, which is IMO certainly high enough for photo work. Both IPS and MVA/PVA calibrate well, overall IPS will show lower deltas, except in the blacks. That being said, it is a fact that all TFTs for professional color graphic work use IPS panels.

If you want the blackest black possible on a TFT, you'll need a MVA/PVA and the Eizo L768 is in that case undoubtedly the best choice, but be aware that these will generally smudge while scrolling (I've seen it on the Eizo L768). Maybe the Eizo L778 is better in this respect with its overdrive circuit - although this monitor is more targeted at video display. Cheaper than the Eizo and just as good? Hmmm...maybe the Dell 1905FP, this one uses the same panel I believe.

If you want to go the IPS route, the best choice for you would probably be the Eizo CG19, the Eizo L797 or the Nec Spectraview 1980. All three of them have IPS panels, and the first and last one are hardware-calibratable (which is better than software calibration). But they are all expensive (>1000 euro). If you want a cheaper IPS, I would wait and see how the new NEC 1980FXI turns, or wait until the L797 goes down in price. If you want an IPS now, look at the NEC 1980SXI. Viewsonic may have a similar device but I'm not familiar with their product line, so I can't help here and I don't want to advice you about a monitor I haven't seen or don't know.

So if the H430 is an MVA, it will be too slow for Rick's purposes (30% gaming).

Actually, are there still 17" TFTs with IPS on the market? I believe not. So unless the Iiyama E481 has come down in price in the UK as it did in Germany, he will have to look for a TN to stay within budget...

Totamec, according to the spec sheet on the Iiyama web site, the Iiyama H430 has an MVA panel, not on IPS panel. The feature guide on prad.de however says it's an IPS panel. Which one is correct? Or did they change the panel without changing the model number?

See: H430

All TFT reviews on Tom's Hardware are made by a French guy who also publishes his tests on www.hardware.fr and www.behardware.com. In every review I have seen him claim that MVA/PVA is suitable for games and IPS is not.

For what it's worth, I have two NECs 1960NXI and have had the chance to put them next to an Eizo L768. Color-wise, I preferred the NEC with its IPS-panel over the Eizo's PVA panel - the S-IPS panel has slightly more natural colors IMO, only the black is better on the PVA panel; and color/gamma shift with varying viewing angles was less on the S-IPS panel than on the PVA panel. What was extremely noticeable though was ghosting during scrolling on the Eizo's PVA panel; the S-IPS panel on the NEC is much better in this respect. I'm sure that this also applies to games (I'm not a gamer though) - so that the S-IPS panel shows much less ghosting in games than the PVA panel.

Könnte ein S-IPS drin sein? Es gibt ja ein I im Name (1980fxi). LG-Philips hat jedenfals ein S-IPS mit 600:1 Kontrast, sehe

http://global.lgphilips-lcd.co…sp/eng/prd/prd201_j_e.jsp

Ich habe mal ein NEC 1960NXi (S-IPS) neben ein Eizo L768 (PVA) gesetzt und ich finde den NEC farbtreuer, also besser fuer Bildbearbeitung. Der Eizo war ein hauch scharfer (aber war ueber DVI angeschlossen, der NEC analog) und hatte das bessere Schwarzwert. Was mir beim Eizo entauscht hat, ist die Farbverfalschung die schon mit kleine Blickwinkeln einsetzt.

The Spectraview 1980 is not only using the same panel as the 1980sxi, it is in fact exactly the same monitor as the 1980sxi. They simply put a Spectraview sticker over the "1980sxi" lettering on the front side.
See TrustedReviews test

A question: why do the moderators on these forums always recommend *VA for graphics? If *VA is the best for colors / color adjustment (as required for graphics / photos), then why is it that both Eizo and Nec use S-IPS in their top-of-the-line monitors for graphical work? I mean the Eizo CG19 and the Nec Spectraview 1980.

I believe *VA has strong, saturated colors, but when it comes to color *accuracy*, S-IPS is probably better.

What do you guys think? Am I wrong?