NEC 2690WUXi (Prad.de User)


    Thanks.


    IFAIK SV mode + sRGB instantly offered normal non-saturated colours, which is pretty good.


    Now the only remaining thing is to find someone, who actually made LUT hardware calibration on newer revisions of euro 2690 with SVII :)


    Btw, which calibration probe would you recommend? Is Spyder 3 OK? Or is it an excessive luxury?


    It seems neraly every 2690 has a problem. Should I aim for a perfect screen?

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von Biges ()

    I doubt that there is nothing like a "PERFECT" screen. Not from NEC nor any other manufactor.


    sRGB: I read that the sRGB-Settings were incorrect.



    A colorimeter / calibration probe is a good investment.


    The Gretag EyeOne Display II is known good. The Display LT is the same hardware but with a smaller software bundle (doesn't matter if you have the SV-II Software).
    The Spyder 3 is the first Spyder that may be used with a wide gamut display. I don't know if it is better or not.

    MfG
    Ghostrider


    So what did you to get rid of over-saturated colours in non-colour manager applications? (games, movies, desktop)

    Zitat

    Original von derGhostrider
    The Spyder 3 is the first Spyder that may be used with a wide gamut display. I don't know if it is better or not.

    Basically it does not depend on the measurement decive. It's the software that has to correct the measured values. Each device has variances - displays as well as measurment devices. A calibration software works with correction tables for "LCD" and "CRT". So the actual measured values will be transformed the display type. This is the most common kind of correction. For wide gamut displays further corrections are essential. You will get best quality if the software compensates the variance of the specific measurment device and the specific display (this is why you should use the manufacturers software or BasICColor Display 4 for the NEC).
    Many people reporting trouble with regard to the Spyder 2. So I would wait a little on what to expect from the Spyder 3. The DTP94 or the Eye Diplays ("2" or "LT"... or the "Squid 2" of BasICColor) work very well and are supported by all the calibration softwares.

    Zitat

    Original von Biges
    So what did you to get rid of over-saturated colours in non-colour manager applications? (games, movies, desktop)

    Second display? :)
    As the colors in non color managed applications are wrong anyhow... why don't you just reduce saturation?

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von thomo ()

    Zitat

    Originally posted by thomo

    Second display? :)
    As the colors in non color managed applications are wrong anyhow... why don't you just reduce saturation?


    With SV mode enabled sRGB looks quite OK. Never the less, it is not possible to reduce saturation, only enhance it (either in monitor or in GFX card controls).

    Zitat

    Original von Biges
    it is not possible to reduce saturation, only enhance it (either in monitor or in GFX card controls).

    ah okay... didn't know about that as I do not have the NEC. On my display I can reduce saturation.


    Zitat

    Original von BigesWith SV mode enabled sRGB looks quite OK.

    so... take it?! If a wide gamut display is desaturated down to sRGB it has nothing to do with color management... it's just for video, games, office ... so if it looks good, take this for non color managed applications and switch to calibration mode if you want to work color managed in Photoshop or elsewhere.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von thomo ()

    thomo:
    The Spyder 2 is not able to recognize all the colours of a wide gamut display. So it's not just a matter of the software: The calibration device has to be able to detect the full spectrum of displayed colours.
    Nevertheless the software has to add corrections as well as you already said.


    Biges:
    I "enjoy" the oversaturated colours in applications and games. ;)


    Most of the time it isn't all that bad. FireFox3 should resolve this problem. Non-colour-critical applications can't apply colour profiles (and don't have to... who cares if an highlighted cell on an excel sheet looks a little bit more saturated?). Colour critical applications use profiles (Paint Shop Pro / Photoshop) and games... well, sometimes the better saturation ins a benefit! In Joint Ops the plants look a little bit too green but still acceptable just the heads up display (HUD) is a little bit extreme (bright green - really green... i mean GREEEEEN!). Nevertheless that's just the HUD.
    If you play C&C3: Compared to my IBM T42p Notebook everything just looks more vivid. NOD is red and not just rusty. The environment (map, ground) looks better.
    I'm playing Assassins Creed for some time and can't complain about the colours. Everything looks just natural.
    Just watching cartoons on TV may blast you away. When the monitor was new I watched (you may laugh now) Spongebob. The colours will knock you down. But there are options in every player to reduce saturation. I'd like to find a player that uses colour profiles...


    So to sum it up:
    In games it's no problem for me. It depends on the game that you play because 100% pure red (255,0,0) and pure green areas will stick out.
    These effect will even be enhanced after a calibration. At least that was the case when I calibrated the monitor the first time: Red and green got more intense.
    Desktop: Well, there is nothing worth to be calibrated. I enjoy the vivid colours.
    Movies: I connected a second computer to my display and inserted my TV-card there. That offers the benefit of an independend calibration (more brightness). The Saturation can be limited in the TV / Video application.


    Many films do not need these limitations. Skin colours are realistic.


    Oh: The NTSC colour space is almost identical to the AdobeRGB. PAL/SECAM is almost identical to sRGB. But which one is "right" for a movie?



    So it's at least worth to think about displaying the colours at the maximum possible colour space.


    Most of the time it's OK to don't limit anything. Just TV-Commercials use extreme colours.

    MfG
    Ghostrider

    Zitat

    Original von derGhostrider
    The Spyder 2 is not able to recognize all the colours of a wide gamut display

    Says who? Where? Have you any information about this? Thank you!

    NEC says it in the README from its own Spectraview II software:



    "NEC LCD2690WUXi, LCD3090WQXi, LCD2180WG-LED displays and Datacolor Sypder2 color sensor:


    * The Datacolor Spyder2 color sensor has been tested with the the NEC LCD2690WUXi, LCD3090WQXi and LCD2180WG-LED displays and found to cause inaccurate measurements when measuring the color primaries. This is due to the wide color gamut aspect of these displays. This may result in an inaccurate calibration and ICC Profiles to be generated. Using this color sensor is not recommended with these displays. The Datacolor Spyder 3 has improved measurement performance for these displays.
    "

    MfG
    Ghostrider

    Zitat

    Original von derGhostrider
    NEC says it in the README from its own Spectraview II software:


    "NEC LCD2690WUXi, LCD3090WQXi, LCD2180WG-LED displays and Datacolor Sypder2 color sensor:


    * The Datacolor Spyder2 color sensor has been tested with the the NEC LCD2690WUXi, LCD3090WQXi and LCD2180WG-LED displays and found to cause inaccurate measurements when measuring the color primaries. This is due to the wide color gamut aspect of these displays. This may result in an inaccurate calibration and ICC Profiles to be generated. Using this color sensor is not recommended with these displays. The Datacolor Spyder 3 has improved measurement performance for these displays."


    Na wow - danke! Kein Wunder, dass so viele Leute bei Kalibration von Wide Gamut Displays Stress mit Spyder 2 haben.

    Daher würde ich mal gerne einen Vergleichstest zwischen Colorimetern sehen! Und zwar nicht nur "Handhabung" und Softwareumfang, sondern eben Qualität der Kalibration, Wide Gamut-Umsetzung etc.


    Eventuell müsste ich dann ja mein Display2 durch ein Spyder3 ersetzen... *schulternzuck*


    Also das Display2 ist m.E. nach gut. Auch andere Grafiker hier im Forum sagten schon, daß die Kalibrationen ihnen gefallen (die werden es wohl wissen), aber ein Testbericht wäre trotzdem etwas feines. Letztens habe ich ein Spyder3 im TV gesehen und das schien viel mehr Sensoren auf der Unterseite auzuweisen. Mehr Sensoren = mehr lichtquanten = mehr Signal = geringerer Meßfehler
    (diese Überlegung gilt nur bei gleicher bzw gleichwertiger Technik).


    Wenn jeder einzelne Sensor natürlich deutlich schlechter ist, dann kann das auch ganz anders aussehen. *schulternzuck* Ein Test muß her!

    MfG
    Ghostrider

    Zitat

    Original von derGhostrider
    Ein Test muß her!

    ach, naja... warum sollte das so wichtig sein. Man sieht doch das Bild nachher... darauf kommt es doch an.
    Ich habe ein DTP94 und ein i1 LT. Die Unterschiede sind minimal. Ich bilde mir ein, dass das DTP94 etwas genauer ist... aber wenn da ein Unterschied ist, dann ist er mehr oder weniger irrelevant. Zudem, wie gesagt, es kommt immer darauf an, wie gut die Kombination Messgerät->Monitor in der Software korrigiert wird. Da kann mal das eine, mal das andere Messgerät besser arbeiten. BasICColor Display 4 kalibriert meinen Schirm (in der Hardware) mit dem DTP94 definitiv besser, als mit dem i1 LT. Color Navigator kalibriert mit dem i1 LT den Schirm aber besser als BasICColor mit dem DTP94 (wobei das ein minimaler Unterschied ist). Und zwischen i1 LT und dem DTP94 jeweils mit Color Navigator... ist fast kein Unterschied. Da stimmen also die Korrekturen in der Eizo-Software für den Eizo-Monitor mit den jeweiligen Messgeräten offenbar sehr gut. Wichtig ist beim i1 LT, dass es auf Betriebstemperatur kommt... sonst kann es Ausreißer geben. Da ist das DTP94 offenbar anspruchsloser. Dafür darf das DTP94 nicht zu warm werden, sonst kommen absurde Werte raus ...
    Das paßt schon alles. Spyder 3 wird sicher auch okay sein...

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von thomo ()

    I finally today bought my NEC 2690WUXi. I chose rather old model (januray 2007, one red dead subpixel visible, noisy, someminor color problems), but one capable of hardware LUT calibration instead of march 2008 euro model (assebled in EU, SEVEN blue subpixels, quiet, I tested it and is seems it can not be calibrated with the US SVII software, nor EU one). YES, THAT'S HOW NEC DISCRIMINATE EU CUSTOMERS, GOD PUNISH THEM AND EXILEM THEM ON SMALL ISLANDS WITH LITTLE OR NO NATURAL RESOURCES!


    Anyway, I have NEC calibration soft, therefore I'm just interested whatever kit should I buy. I can choose between:


    Spyder 3, which is cheaper and


    Gretag LT, which the NEC guy recommended


    Which one do you think is better?

    Zitat

    Original von Biges
    Anyway, I have NEC calibration soft, therefore I'm just interested whatever kit should I buy. I can choose between:
    Spyder 3, which is cheaper and
    Gretag LT, which the NEC guy recommended
    Which one do you think is better?


    Take the i1 Display LT.

    Biges:
    I don't know which one is better but the Gretag LT is "known good".



    According to you monitor selection problem: So I had luck to buy one of the good NECs. No dead (sub)pixels or any other display problems. Just the little noise that does not matter because of the loud computers. :)


    NEC just wants to sell the original Spectraview models. Well, somehow I can understand them. On the other hand it's one of the most important features of the 2690...

    MfG
    Ghostrider

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von derGhostrider ()


    derGhostrider


    Thanks. Well, one red sub-pixel is not really a big deal, it is only noticable on a black screen and when I know where to look. It was quite a luck to buy NOW a WUXi which is SV mode capable (I have some connections actually).


    When the screens arrive to Europe, the best are put into SV, the rest into 2690WUXi, so it may be difficult to to get WUXi without dead pixels/subpixels.


    What makes me angry is that US customers have far better service, they can calibrate their monitors' LUT at will etc., NEC is willing to repair/exchange their monitor more often then in EU.


    thomo, derGhostrider


    I'll take your recommendations regarding the probe into consideration, thanks.

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von Biges ()

    Zitat

    Original von derGhostrider
    Daher würde ich mal gerne einen Vergleichstest zwischen Colorimetern sehen!


    guckst du: Farbmanagement unter Mac OS X - Vergleichstest Teil 1: Hardware


    guckst du weida: Farbmanagement unter Mac OS X: Vergleichstest Teil 2: Software


    Testsieger Teil 1: DTP94 und i1 Pro vor Spyder 3
    Testsieger Teil 2: iColor Display und basICColor display


    Messqualität möglicher Kombinationen aus Monitor-Farbmessgerät und Profilierungssoftware:


    Empfehlenswerte Kombinationen
    iColor Display mit: DTP94; i1 Pro; i1 Display2
    basICColor display mit: DTP94; i1 Pro; Spyder 3; Spyder 2

    cu
    surfer99de


    Sorry, I don't understand German much. So i1 Display2 > Spyder 3, or i1 Display2 = Spyder 3?
    Danke :)