Eizo bad backlight construction design

  • For example s1910 is very hard on eyes.
    The backlight has bad construction.
    It blink only at 142 Hz while most other companys
    uses more than 220 Hz 300Hz and more than 400 Hz backlight.
    Some other manufacturers products use backlight that has no flicker at all.


    So I think EIZO is very BAD monitor company.

  • Hm, actually backlights work at several Kiloherz frequency, but to be able to dim the backlight the off-cycles are made the longer the more you lower the luminance.


    Frequencies in the region of 140 Hz are usually not discernable for the human eyes. In fact most people wont see any more flicker at 75 Hz with some people prefering 100 Hz. So as long as you ain't no jet-pilot oder grand-prix driver it's hardly a problem at all.


    As far as I know TFTs "flicker-range" is about 100 Hz for dimmest setting to 400 Hz for nearly brightest setting. The brightest setting actually should not flicker at all, since the backlight is all powered up then, which also is often discernable by sound of the converters. But I am sure it differs from manufacturer to manufacturer and even from display to display.


    That said I have to admit though that I know the Viewsonic VP2030 can produce backlight flickering when luminance is set lower than 5%. On the other hand it archives some really dark luminance settings which most TFT wont achive anyway. So you are always free to set it to a higher flicker-free luminance. Given the 10 bit LUT of the Eizo displays you can always lower the RGB-values to lower overall luminance without losing colors, too.


    So while I cannot really judge on the quality of the Eizo backlight, I think there is something odd about your arguments.

    We're all mad in here...

  • I know that you wont see it flickers at 142 Hz by eyes . But when you look at it for hours belive me you will feel it.


    you also cannot compare CRT to LCD flickers . If I remember right CRT uses something like half-frame blinks and on LCD you get full frame blinks.


    Why then most manufacturers use alot higher frekvency ?
    Here are the measurement facts :
    Eizo s1910 - 142 Hz


    For example Samsung 214T - 320 Hz


    Feel free to look at other LCDs:


    the specifications under are uder name "Regulace jasu"


    I know those good webpages are in czech language, but i think you can find it there. I dont know other webpages which did such measurements.

  • According to that site the backlight uses a set rate at every luminance setting, and just increases the "off" time of the backlight which is well possible and makes sense. But still I don't see why 140 Hz should be more of a problem than 320 Hz. 140 Hz is already double as high as the perceptible frequency of around 70 Hz and it's 40 Hz more than what most people have been using for years on CRTs.


    And CRTs do not use half-frame blinks as far as I can tell. They build a complete frame line by line, then the line vanishes to black before a new line is drawn. TV signal is build of interlaced half-frames but is as well displayed at full-frame rate as well (line drawn, line cleared, line drawn etc).


    Regarding the S1910: it uses very large dot pitch of 0,297 mm. Some people have reported about eye strain and headache because of that.


    Frankly I am absolutely with you that frequency should be as high as possble, but can the Samsung achive as low a luminance as the Eizo at such a high frequency? Most TFTs burn my eyes with their high luminance, so I am always happy to be able to set them as low as possible when I need to. I also wonder if a high frequency switching backlight will last as long as another one that is switched at a lower frequency (less often in a given time span).

    We're all mad in here...

  • From svethardware.cz I got values:


    Samsung 214T - 320Hz
    ViewSonic VG1921wm - 220Hz
    LG L245WP - 220Hz
    HP LP1965 - 300Hz
    HP LP3065 - 240Hz
    ViewSonic 22"-iPod - 220Hz
    Asus MW221U - 240hz
    Philipsu (200P7ES) - no backlight flickers
    Samsung 971P - no backlight flickers
    Philips 190B7 - 100Hz
    ViewSonic VX2025wm - 240Hz
    Samsung 215TW - 224Hz
    EIZO S1910 - 142Hz
    SONY SDM-E96D - 442Hz
    Samsung 970P - no backlight flickers
    Samsung 931BF - 335Hz
    SONY SDM-HS95PR - 442Hz
    ViewSonic VX922 - 382Hz (60Hz multi)
    ViewSonic VP930 - 225Hz
    Samsung 193P+ - no backlight flickers
    NEC 1970NX - 225Hz
    LG L1970HQ - 225Hz
    Hyundai L19T - no backlight flickers
    HP L1955 - no backlight flickers
    Fujitsu Siemens P19-2- 333Hz
    Belinea 101915 - 200Hz
    BenQ FP93GX - no backlight flickers
    Acer AL1923 - 375Hz
    LG Flatron L1970HR - 170Hz
    HP LP2465 - 165Hz
    Philips 200W6CS - no backlight flickers
    HP LP2065 - 227Hz
    Asus PW201 - 220Hz
    Belinea 102035W - 250Hz
    Formac Gallery 1900 - 230Hz
    EIZO S2110W - 100Hz
    NEC 20WGX2 - 208Hz


    Those values may be not fully objective without other info.


    So I mean Eizo uses very bad backlight frekvency.
    Don't you belive - just look at your Eizo screen with videocamera set at sport mode.
    On s1910 eizo uses very high luminance backlight located right under screen to achieve high contrast and also uniform backlight.
    But their backlight blinks are very sharp shaped and very low frekvency.
    This make you feel you are illuminated . If you lower down the brightness you may think the light is lower but it is harvesting your eyes with flickers(of full and low light).

  • Zitat

    Original von ei6
    Don't you belive - just look at your Eizo screen with videocamera set at sport mode.


    Videocameras usualy only record at 30 frames/s or 25 frames/s, so what are we supposed to see?


    I do understand you point, you actually you gave no facts that in anyway prove that in practice a flickering of 140 Hz is any much worse than a flickering at 320 Hz. I also wonder how the measurements of svethardware.cz are taken? Do they measure a single pixel, a single line or a whole area? Do they measure a stable picture (like all white) or do they use dynamic content which would have to take pixel switching time into account!?

    We're all mad in here...

  • On CRT monitors maybe the lower frekvency is acceptable because of the beam draw is consecutive changing from up to down. And not the full screen at once.
    Also on CRT mabye there is some phosphor slowdown.
    On CRT you also don't have the text so sharp as on LCD.


    But those things are just thoughts.


    >Videocameras usualy only record at 30 frames/s or 25 frames/s, so what are we supposed to see?
    Have you tried for example the sport mode ?
    You will see very hard blink compared to other monitors.


    Here they have explained the measurement procedure.

    But it is in Czech language. Maybe some webtranslator can translate it to you.
    It is too bad that most reviews doesn't test those i think essential backlight things.

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von ei6 ()

  • I just want to update my thread


    Another tested monitors at :
    Acer AL1917Csd - 467Hz
    Acer AL1951Cs and Ds - no backlight flickers
    BenQ FP91GX - 340Hz
    Fujitsu Siemens ScaleoView H19-1 - 230Hz
    iiyama ProLite E1900S - no backlight flickers
    LG L1900R - no backlight flickers
    BenQ FP93GX - no backlight flickers


    more tested to come


    Also started to test those backlight modulation frequency.
    Some of their measurements:


    Samsung SyncMaster 305T - 240Hz
    Acer AL1916 - 266Hz
    ASUS PG191 - 220Hz
    ASUS MB19TU - 340Hz
    Dell E196FP - 320Hz
    LG Flatron L1900R (Ring) - 260Hz
    LG Flatron L1960TR - 260Hz
    Samsung SyncMaster 932B - 320Hz
    Samsung SyncMaster 940Fn - no backlight flickers


    So thats what I wrote about. No one else uses so bad backlight modulation frequency as eizo do.

  • Another update from


    LG L1960TR - 230Hz
    Samsung 931C - 335Hz
    Samsung 932B - 245Hz
    Samsung 960BG - no backlight flickers
    Philips 190C7FS -238Hz

  • Where are all the Eizo-users complaining about headache?
    I´ve got the feeling you just discovered a list of numbers where a big company (Eizo) is listed with relative low values compared to other manufacturers.


    Judging Eizo as a "very bad manufacturer" only based on a particular value which obviously has never been critisized by owners (and Eizo users are users that look closely) is a bit strange in my eyes.

  • Zitat

    Original von therealkickers
    Where are all the Eizo-users complaining about headache?


    We are hiding...
    Every friday our anonymous 142Hz-flickering-group meets on a secret place.


    :D

  • ok,
    therealkickers:
    I am not writing this thread based just on values found on internet.
    But they completly confirming what I wrote.
    I wrote this thread on my own long time experience with EIZO s1910.
    And I know that I am not only one with this meaning that there is something with it.
    Picture is nice at first sight , but if you look at it for long hours every day you will feel it.


    Some words from your post can be debatable ("big company"-compared to what ? , "relative low values"-quite big diference in values don't you think?)

  • Zitat

    Original von ei6
    Picture is nice at first sight , but if you look at it for long hours every day you will feel it.


    Yes, I can feel that I had made a good choice when I bought my S1910 8)


    Sometimes I sit more than 12 hours in front of the screen and I have absolutely no problems with that. Several ours of that (evenings->night) with only 10% brightness.

  • Yes yes yes, Eizos are flickering way too much. All the people over the internet and all users are wrong, they just don´t see the bad flickering. All the forums are giving wrong information about the great picture quality of Eizo TFT because 90% of the forum users are Samsung employees.


    Maybe some Admin here can post your list on the main page of prad.de so that we all can see what crappy monitors have been recommended for the last couple of years.


    When I´m at it: Did you know that all Maybach seats are uncomfortable because the springs are 2 cm too long? Noone knows so far, but I´ve got a document that says so. Damn, where is it, seem to have misplaced it...


    Sarcastic mode off :)


    If your 1910 was flickering so strong that you could hardly stand it, it was broken. It´s just impossible that all other Eizo users just don´t see the flickering. There are occasional users, sure, but there are way more "professional" users who would definitely share their negative experiences in the internet. Be sure such information would be spreading like a virus, here (in the biggest German TFT Forum) as well. Now that it doesn´t, it can hardly be *that* bad. Right?